Showing papers on "Annoyance published in 2007"

Wind turbine noise, annoyance and self-reported health and well-being in different living environments

Abstract: Aims The aims of this thesis were to describe and gain an understanding of how people who live in the vicinity of wind turbines are affected by wind turbine noise, and how individual, situational and visual factors, as well as sound properties, moderate the response. Methods A cross-sectional study was carried out in a flat, mainly rural area in Sweden, with the objective to estimate the prevalence of noise annoyance and to examine the dose-response relationship between Aweighted sound pressure levels (SPLs) and perception of and annoyance with wind turbine noise. Subjective responses were obtained through a questionnaire (n = 513; response rate: 68%) and outdoor, Aweighted SPLs were calculated for each respondent. To gain a deeper understanding of the observed noise annoyance, 15 people living in an area were interviewed using open-ended questions. The interviews were analysed using the comparative method of Grounded Theory (GT). An additional cross-sectional study, mainly exploring the influence of individual and situational factors, was carried out in seven areas in Sweden that differed with regard to terrain (flat or complex) and degree of urbanization (n = 765; response rate: 58%). To further explore the impact of visual factors, data from the two cross-sectional studies were tested with structural equation modelling. A proposed model of the influence of visual attitude on noise annoyance, also comprising the influence of noise level and general attitude, was tested among respondents who could see wind turbines versus respondents who could not see wind turbines from their dwelling, and respondents living in flat versus complex terrain. Results Dose-response relationships were found both for perception of noise and for noise annoyance in relation to A-weighted SPLs. The risk of annoyance was enhanced among respondents who could see at least one turbine from their dwelling and among those living in a rural in comparison with a suburban area. Noise from wind turbines was appraised as an intrusion of privacy among people who expected quiet and peace in their living environment. Negative experiences that led to feelings of inferiority added to the distress. Sound characteristics describing the amplitude modulated aerodynamic sound were appraised as the most annoying (swishing, whistling and pulsating/throbbing). Wind turbines were judged as environmentally friendly, efficient and necessary, but also as ugly and unnatural. Being negative towards the visual impact of the wind turbines on the landscape scenery, rather than towards wind turbines as such, was strongly associated with annoyance. Self-reported health impairment was not correlated to SPL, while decreased well-being was associated with noise annoyance. Indications of possible hindrance to psychophysiological restoration were observed. Conclusions Wind turbine noise is easily perceived and is annoying even at low A-weighted SPLs. This could be due to perceived incongruence between the characteristics of wind turbine noise and the background sound. Wind turbines are furthermore prominent objects whose rotational movement attracts the eye. Multimodal sensory effects or negative aesthetic response could enhance the risk of noise annoyance. Adverse reactions could possibly lead to stress-related symptoms due to prolonged physiological arousal and hindrance to psychophysiological restoration. The observed differences in prevalence of noise annoyance between living environments make it necessary to assess separate doseresponse relationships for different types of landscapes.

Reducing annoyance by managing the acoustic noise produced by a device

Abstract: One embodiment of the present invention provides a system that reduces annoyance by managing the acoustic noise produced by a device. During operation, the system receives a set of acoustic characteristics for noise-producing components within the device. The system then uses these acoustic characteristics to estimate the acoustic noise being generated by each of these noise-producing components. Next, the system aggregates this set of acoustic noise estimates to produce an aggregate estimate for the acoustic noise produced by the device. The system then analyzes this aggregate estimate using an acoustic annoyance model to determine the acoustic annoyance level. The system then adjusts a setting in the device to manage the acoustic annoyance level produced by the device.

Alerts for in-vehicle information systems: annoyance, urgency, and appropriateness

Abstract: OBJECTIVE: This study assesses the influence of the auditory characteristics of alerts on perceived urgency and annoyance and whether these perceptions depend on the context in which the alert is received. BACKGROUND: Alert parameters systematically affect perceived urgency, and mapping the urgency of a situation to the perceived urgency of an alert is a useful design consideration. Annoyance associated with environmental noise has been thoroughly studied, but little research has addressed whether alert parameters differentially affect annoyance and urgency. METHOD: Three 2(3) x 3 mixed within/between factorial experiments, with a total of 72 participants, investigated nine alert parameters in three driving contexts. These parameters were formant (similar to harmonic series), pulse duration, interpulse interval, alert onset and offset, burst duty cycle, alert duty cycle, interburst period, and sound type. Imagined collision warning, navigation alert, and E-mail notification scenarios defined the driving context. RESULTS: All parameters influenced both perceived urgency and annoyance (p Language: en

Associations between noise sensitivity and sleep, subjectively evaluated sleep quality, annoyance, and performance after exposure to nocturnal traffic noise

Abstract: In order to determine the influence of noise sensitivity on sleep, subjective sleep quality, annoyance, and performance after nocturnal exposure to traffic noise, 12 women and 12 men (age range, 19-28 years) were observed during four consecutive nights over a three weeks period. After a habituation night, the participants were exposed with weekly permuted changes to air, rail and road traffic noise. Of the four nights, one was a quiet night (32 dBA), while three were noisy nights with exposure to equivalent noise levels of 39, 44, and 50 dBA in a permuted order. The traffic noise caused alterations of most of the physiological parameters, subjective evaluation of sleep, annoyance, and performance. Correlations were found between noise sensitivity and subjective sleep quality in terms of worsened restoration, decreased calmness, difficulty to fall asleep, and body movements. The results suggest that alterations of subjective evaluation of sleep were determined by physical parameters of the noise but modified by individual factors like noise sensitivity.

Spatial distribution of traffic induced noise exposures in a US city: an analytic tool for assessing the health impacts of urban planning decisions

Abstract: Vehicle traffic is the major source of noise in urban environments, which in turn has multiple impacts on health. In this paper we investigate the spatial distribution of community noise exposures and annoyance. Traffic data from the City of San Francisco were used to model noise exposure by neighborhood and road type. Remote sensing data were used in the model to estimate neighborhood-specific percentages of cars, trucks, and buses on arterial versus non-arterial streets. The model was validated on 235 streets. Finally, an exposure-response relationship was used to predict the prevalence of high annoyance for different neighborhoods. Urban noise was found to increase 6.7 dB (p < 0.001) with 10-fold increased street traffic, with important contributors to noise being bus and heavy truck traffic. Living along arterial streets also increased risk of annoyance by 40%. The relative risk of annoyance in one of the City's fastest growing neighborhoods, the South of Market Area, was found to be 2.1 times that of lowest noise neighborhood. However, higher densities of exposed individuals were found in Chinatown and Downtown/Civic Center. Overall, we estimated that 17% of the city's population was at risk of high annoyance from traffic noise. The risk of annoyance from urban noise is large, and varies considerably between neighborhoods. Such risk should be considered in urban areas undergoing rapid growth. We present a relatively simple GIS-based noise model that may be used for routinely evaluating the health impacts of environmental noise.

Annoyance due to air pollution in Europe.

Abstract: determinants. Methods This study took place in the context of the European Community Respiratory Health Survey II (ECRHS II) that was conducted during 1999–2001. It included 25 centres in 12 countries and 7867 randomly selected adults from the general population. Annoyance due to air pollution was self-reported on an 11-point scale. Annual mean mass concentration of fine particles (PM2.5) and its sulphur (S) content were measured in 21 centres as a surrogate of urban air pollution. Results Forty-three per cent of participants reported moderate annoyance (1–5 on the scale) and 14% high annoyance (56) with large differences across centres (2–40% of high annoyance). Participants in the Northern European countries reported less annoyance. Female gender, nocturnal dyspnoea, phlegm and rhinitis, self-reported car and heavy vehicle traffic in front of the home, high education, non-smoking and exposure to environmental tobacco smoke were associated with higher annoyance levels. At the centre level, adjusted means of annoyance scores were moderately associated with sulphur urban levels (slope 1.43m gm � 3 , standard error 0.40, r ¼ 0.61).

The Effect of Transportation Noise on Health and Cognitive Development:A Review of Recent Evidence - eScholarship

Abstract: Noise from transport is an increasingly prominent feature of the urban environment. Whilst the auditory effects of noise on humans are established, non-auditory effects - the effects of noise exposure on human health, well-being and cognitive development - are less well established. This narrative review evaluates recent studies of aircraft and road traffic noise that have advanced or synthesized knowledge about several aspects of adult and child health and cognition. Studies have demonstrated a moderate effect of transport noise on hypertension, cardiovascular disease and catecholamine secretion: there is also evidence for an effect on psychological symptoms but not for the onset of more serious clinically defined psychiatric disorder. One way noise may affect health is through annoyance: noise causes annoyance responses in both children and adults and annoyance may cause stress-responses and subsequent illness. Another possible mechanism is sleep disturbance: transport noise has been found to disturb sleep in laboratory and field studies, although there is evidence for adaptation to noise exposure. For children effects of aircraft and road traffic noise have been observed for impaired reading comprehension and memory skills: there is equivocal evidence for an association with blood pressure. To date most health effects have been very little researched and studies have yet to examine in detail how noise exposure interacts with other environmental stressors. In conclusion, noise is a main cause of environmental annoyance and it negatively affects the quality of life of a large proportion of the population. In addition, health and cognitive effects, although modest, may be of importance given the number of people increasingly exposed to environmental noise and the chronic nature of exposure.

Noise within the social context: Annoyance reduction through fair procedures

Abstract: The social context of noise exposure is a codeterminant of noise annoyance. The present study shows that fairness of the exposure procedure (sound management) can be used as an instrument to reduce noise annoyance. In a laboratory experiment (N=117) participants are exposed to aircraft sound of different sound pressure level (SPL: 50 vs 70dBA)—which is experienced as noise—while they work on a reading task. The exposure procedure (fair versus neutral) is modeled in line with findings from social justice theory. In the fair condition, participants can voice their preference for a certain sound sample, although they cannot deduce whether their preference is granted. In the neutral condition, participants are not asked to voice their preference. Results show the predicted interaction effect of sound pressure level and procedure on annoyance: Annoyance ratings are significantly lower in the fair condition than in the neutral condition, but this effect is found only in the 70dB condition. When the SPL is consi...

Health effects of annoyance induced by neighbour noise

Abstract: Traffic noise (road noise, train noise, flight noise, noise of parking cars), is the most dominant source of annoyance in the living environment for many people living in European countries. This is followed by neighbour noise (neighbouring apartments, staircase, playing children and noise within the apartment). The subjective experience of noise stress can, through central nervous processes, lead to an inadequate neuro-endocrine reaction and finally to regulation diseases. Within the context of the WHO-LARES-survey, annoyance induced by neighbour noise was collected and evaluated in connection with reported medically diagnosed illnesses. Adults who indicated chronically severe annoyance by neighbour noise were found to have an increased health risk in the cardio-vascular system, the movement apparatus, as well as increased risk of depression and migraine. With regards to elderly people there is generally a lower risk of noise annoyance induced illness than in other adults. It can be assumed that the effect of noise induced annoyance in older people is concealed by health consequences of age (with a strong increase of illnesses). With children, the effect of noise induced annoyance from neighbour noise is most evident in the respiratory system. The increased illness risks in the respiratory system in children do not seem to be caused primarily by air pollutants, but rather, as a result of emotional stress. Neighbour noise induced annoyance is therefore a highly underestimated risk factor for healthy housing.

Trait anxiety and modeled exposure as determinants of self-reported annoyance to sound, air pollution and other environmental factors in the home.

Abstract: We examined to what degree annoyance ratings to noise, air pollution and other common environmental factors in the home environment could be considered to mirror personality disposition in terms of habitual anxiety level and, when appropriate, objectively modeled noise and nitrogen emission (NOx) A trait anxiety scale was introduced in a cross-sectional public health survey with 2,856 respondents Of these, 705 had self-reported asthma and the rest constituted gender-matched referents Annoyance to ten specific factors in the residential environment, mainly focusing on source-specific noise and air pollution, was assessed on a six-point likert scale A-weighted energy equivalent continuous sound pressure level during a full day (24 h; L Aeq,24) as well as annual average NOx levels (μg/m3) at the residential address were modeled with high resolution, using a road data base and a detailed emission data base for NOx The two most prevalent complaints were annoyance to traffic noise and sounds from neighbors, which was reported by about 8% of the participants Unadjusted logistic regression analyses using the continuous trait anxiety score as a predictor showed positive associations with ratings of annoyance from total traffic noise, sounds from neighbors, sound from ventilation, exhaust fumes from traffic, sounds from other installations, and vibrations from traffic (ORs between 137 and 214) Modeled noise and NOx exposure were positively related with annoyance to traffic noise and exhaust fumes, respectively Adjustment of the trait anxiety scores for other individual characteristics and potential determinants did not change the overall pattern of results Trait anxiety scores were often mirrored in ratings of annoyance, which suggests caution when using annoyance reports either as a surrogate measure for environmental exposure on the individual-level in epidemiologic studies or when studying the moderating effects of annoyance on health outcomes

Annoyance due to single and combined sound exposure from railway and road traffic.

Abstract: Environmental noise is a growing and well recognized health problem. However, in many cases people are exposed not to a single noise source—for example, road, railway, or aircraft noise—but to a combination of noise exposures and there is only limited knowledge of the effects on health of exposure to combined noise sources. A socio-acoustic survey among 1953 persons aged 18–75 years was conducted in residential areas exposed to railway and road traffic noise with sound levels ranging from LAeq,24h 45–72dB in a municipality east of Gothenburg, Sweden. The objectives were to assess various adverse health effects, including annoyance, and to elucidate the impact of exposure to single and combined noise sources. In areas exposed to both railway and road traffic, the proportion annoyed by the total traffic sound environment (total annoyance) was significantly higher than in areas with one dominant noise source (rail or road traffic) with the same total sound exposure (LAeq,24h,tot). This interaction effect was...

Managing anger and annoyance in organizations in China : the role of constructive controversy

Abstract: Results from critical incidents, developed through diaries of organizational members in China, support the social cognitive perspective's emphasis on the role of cognitions in the experience and response to anger and suggest that this perspective is a potential foundation for managing anger. Findings indicate that the open-minded discussion (constructive controversy) of the anger and annoyance incidents confirms social face and strengthens relationships. These productive dynamics and outcomes were found to occur when organizational members felt cooperatively interdependent. Results were interpreted as suggesting that even in a society where collectivist and conflict-negative values are influential, anger and annoyance can be constructively managed through an open-minded discussion of the incident.

Aircraft noise and risk politics

Abstract: Air mobility spans most of the globe, but its side effects are concentrated in relatively small localities. In this paper aircraft noise annoyance is interpreted from the perspective of risk society theory as described by Ulrich Beck. With the increase in air mobility, side effects like noise nuisance gradually dominate the air mobility discussions. The logic of wealth distribution is thereby replaced by the logic of risk distribution. General annoyance statistics support this interpretation. But these statistics actually construct noise annoyance in the first place. Airport planners and professionals intentionally introduced the issue of noise annoyance to a wider audience. This exemplifies the ambivalence of risk theory as proposed by Beck. He employs a constructivist perspective, however he has a tendency to naturalize hazards. The dynamics that Beck describes as reflexive thrive on the inherent capacity of pollutants to confront the society that brought them forth. This article uses a constru...

A study of annoyance caused by low-frequency noise during mental work.

Abstract: This article presents the results of an analysis of annoyance caused by low-frequency noise (including infrasonic noise) that occurs at work stations located in offices. The tests covered measurements of acoustic parameters specific for this type of noise and a survey conducted in the working environment and in laboratory conditions at a model of a work station.

Acoustical, sensory, and psychological research data and procedures for their use in predicting effects of environmental noises.

Abstract: A demonstration field-research study reveals that aircraft noise measured at two one-story houses is ∼9dB less attenuated from measured outdoor levels than is street traffic noise, and, found in other studies, ∼14dB less than railway noise. Comparable differences are found between these noises from the application of basic acoustical formulas for quantifying attenuations that occur on site of one- and two-story houses. Reasonably consistent with those findings are results from attitude surveys showing that daily exposure levels of aircraft must be ∼8dB less than levels of street traffic noise, and ∼13dB less than levels of railway noise to be perceived as an equal cause of annoyance and related adverse effects. However, USA government guidelines recommend that equal exposure levels of noise measured outdoors from vehicles of transportation should be considered as being equally annoying. Changes in present USA noise-measurement procedures and noise-control guidelines are proposed that provide more accurate...

Snoring noise pollution--the need for objective quantification of annoyance, regulatory guidelines and mandatory therapy for snoring.

Abstract: Habitual snoring without episodes of apnea or hypoventilation and without respiratory related arousals is considered to be annoying and without any need for treatment. However, studies seem to suggest an enormous psychosocial impact of annoyance for the bed partner. Apart from subjective questionnaires there still exists no generally accepted mode of measurement that can describe snoring objectively. We therefore adapted methods developed for environmental medicine and established a new snore score using psycho-acoustic parameters. For quantification of snoring noise we conducted nocturnal measurements in 19 habitual snorers. Free-field snore sounds were acquired with two low-cost non-contact microphones and transferred to a PC (sampling frequency 11 kHz). The data were recorded, analysed and stored automatically using a MATLAB script. Following the analysis of sound characteristics and levels, the score was computed from relevant parameters containing the rating level (LR), maximum level, two percentile levels for frequent maxima (L5S; L1) and snoring time. The determined values substantially exceeded the prescribed limits defined by WHO noise guidelines, and mainly affected the equivalent continuous sound exposure level, rating level and the immission standard values of brief noise peaks, whose maximum was exceeded by up to 32 dB(A). The Berlin snore score illustrated the objective acoustic annoyance on a scale from 0 to 100. It allows inter-individual comparison and objectifies the need for therapy. The clinical applicability of evaluating the reduction of snoring after surgical therapy is discussed exemplarily. The presented measuring method was found to be suitable for quantifying snoring noise and can be easily integrated into existing polysomnographic applications. In the case of habitual snoring with objective evidence of psychosocially disturbing acoustic annoyance, health fund providers should assume the costs of mandatory medical therapy.

Perceived annoyance and asthmatic symptoms in relation to vehicle exhaust levels outside home: a cross-sectional study.

Abstract: Background: Exhaust emissions from vehicles is a well known problem with both epidemiological and experimental studies showing increasing adverse health effects with elevating levels. Many of the studies concerning vehicle exhausts and health are focused on health outcomes where the proportion attributed to exhaust is low, while there is less information on early and more frequent subjective indicators of adverse effects. Methods: The primary aim of this study was to study perceived annoyance in relation to vehicle exhaust concentrations using modelled levels of nitrogen dioxide outside the home as an indicator with high spatial resolution. Almost 2800 persons in a random sample from three Swedish cities (Umea, Uppsala and Gothenburg) responded to our questionnaire. Questions were asked to determine the degree of annoyance related to vehicle exhausts and also the prevalence of irritating and asthmatic symptoms. Exposure was described for each participants home address by meteorological dispersion models with a 50 meter resolution. Results: We found a significant increase of peoples' self-assessed annoyance with rising levels of NO 2 . The odds of being very annoyed by vehicle exhausts increased by 14% per 1 µg/m3 increase of the NO2 level (odds ratio (OR) = 1.14, 95% confidence interval (CI) = 1.11–1.18), and the odds of reporting the air as daily or almost daily irritating increased by 9% (OR = 1.09, 95% CI = 1.05– 1.13). Also the odds of reporting asthmatic symptoms increased significantly with elevated NO 2 levels (OR = 1.04, 95% CI = 1.01–1.07). Conclusion: This study found the degree of annoyance related to vehicle exhaust and irritating and asthmatic symptoms to be significantly dependant on the levels of traffic related pollutants outside the home. The detailed exposure assessment lowers the degree of misclassification as compared to between-city analyses, which makes the results more accurate and applicable on the local scale.

Noise annoyance around an international airport planned to be extended

Abstract: A large field study with 2312 residents from 66 areas around Frankfurt Airport was performed in 2005 in order to investigate the effects of aircraft noise on annoyance and health-related quality of life. The survey was carried out in a period between the announcement and the planned implementation of an airport extension (construction of a new runway). The results show among others a shift in noise annoyance in comparison to dose-response curves generated from meta-analyses including older studies. In addition to noise exposure non-acoustical factors like attitudes towards the noise source, expectations concerning future residential situation after airport extension and (dis-)trust in authorities had a substantial influence on noise annoyance.

Cognitive degradation after exposure to combined noise and whole-body vibration in a simulated vehicle ride

Abstract: This study investigated if vehicle noise and whole-body vibrations produce negative after-effects on performance in an attention task and on ratings of alertness, difficulty, and annoyance. The task was applied before and after exposure, and after a rest. Participants had degraded performance immediately after exposure in all conditions, but no effect was found after the rest. No main effect was found between exposure conditions on performance, it was concluded that the degraded performance dependent on time was caused by fatigue. The results also suggested lower ratings of alertness and higher ratings of annoyance in the vibration condition compared to the control condition.

The effects of noise from combined traffic sources on annoyance: the case of interactions between rail and road noise

Abstract: The combination of rail and road (highway, main roads) noise exposure is highly prevalent in European countries. In Germany, the number of people exposed to both were estimated to be around 11 millions. Although increasing consi deration has been given to the effects of noise from combined traffic sources at conferenc es during the last decade (Internoise 1996, 1997, 2000, 2001, 2006) the scientific community still lacks a full understanding of this issue. Its proper understanding is, however, i mportant for regulatory purposes. Therefore, it is not surprising that in current pra ctice the community response to noise is assessed source by source. In 2006, a socio-acoustic survey (N=1643) was repeated in the same alpine valley with the same questionnaire as in 1998 (N= 2007). Thus, we were able to evaluate and extend our earlier analyses. Results: Annoyance due to rail noise is significant ly modified through additional highway or main road noise. This modifying effect takes pre ferably place beyond 300m from the rail track. Overall, when the rail exposure is sign ificantly higher (>6dBA) than the highway noise the combined effect is strongest. Fin ally, the exposure pattern observed in this survey (alpine valley) differs substantially f rom the exposure pattern seen in a large survey (N=7500) in Flandern (plain area).

Second International Meeting on Wind Turbine Noise

Abstract: Noise from wind turbines is of great concern for the neighbours. Both the sound level and other characteristics of the wind turbine noise are of significance for the annoyance. By applying a model for sound propagation, it is possible to auralize the sound from the wind turbine at the neighbouring residents. This approach potentially gives a more realistic presentation of the actual wind turbine noise as input to the decision-making process. In the present work, five different wind turbines were recorded and auralized at two distances using the Nord2000 propagation model. 20 subjects rated the processed recordings on overall annoyance both with and without additional natural background noise. Relevant sound attributes like loudness, pace, tonality and swishing sound were also rated by the subjects and compared with physical metrics. As a result, a metric for swishing sound is proposed. Finally, a model based on the results from this study on annoyance of sound from wind turbines is presented.

The effects of noise from combined traffic sources on annoyance: The interaction between aircraft and road traffic noise

Abstract: Although increasing consideration has been given to the effects of noise from the combination of rail and road traffic, data for the combined effects from road traffic and aircraft noise are rather scarce. In order to elucidate the combined effect of these two noise types on annoyance, previously published data from two aircraft noise annoyance surveys conducted in 2001 and 2003 among residents in the vicinity of Zurich Airport have recently been completed with road traffic noise exposure data. One of the research questions was, whether road traffic noise, due to its continuous nature, is better able to mask aircraft noise events and thus rather modifies aircraft noise annoyance than vice-versa. Analyses were conducted in accordance with the methodology outlined in the paper by Lercher et al. [1]. A similar effect as found with railway noise annoyance in the aforementioned paper has been found with aircraft noise: its annoyance reaction was modified through additional road traffic noise although the effect was not very strong. Interestingly, for road traffic noise annoyance, it was found that at high levels of aircraft noise exposure, the exposureeffect curve even reverses, with other words: follows a negative trend.

Noise annoyance and restoration in different courtyard settings: Laboratory experiments on audio-visual interactions

Abstract: Having access to restorative, natural environments in urban residential areas is important for health and wellbeing. However, previous research on restorative environments is mainly focused on the visual impression. Knowledge is needed on the interaction between the acoustic/perceived soundscape and the visual appearance in residential settings intended for restoration and recreation. The present study examines audio-visual interactions in two laboratory settings – an attractive vs. unattractive courtyard. At each courtyard setting, six sound conditions were presented in a randomised order during 4 minutes each: only sounds from road traffic at LAeq 43, 50 and 55 dB, and these traffic sound levels together with birdsong. 24 subjects (12 men, 12 women) participated in the experiment. The results indicate that visual courtyard perception, road traffic noise annoyance, perceived soundscape (e.g., soothing, stressing), emotional reactions, and possibilities to rest/relax were affected by courtyard setting, sound levels, and birdsong. For example, noise annoyance decreased with the attractive courtyard setting and presence of birdsong. However, about 35 to 50% and 75 to 90% were annoyed at 50 and 55 dB, respectively. At these sound levels, few of the participants reported that they would like to visit the courtyards, even if it was the attractive one.